Brexit costing Britain £500m a week and rising, compared to £350m dividend touted by Leave campaign

#52
I know that us yanks in the US have it bad with Trump and his brood but Jeez I couldn't imagine the anxiety I'd have from knowing that my country was about to fall off a cliff in 180 days.

Are there any signs that the UK and the EU are even close at all to a deal?
I'd bet on no deal now.

The Tories are straight up delusional. They think they can make the EU fuck itself because magic reasons that dumb ass conservatives make up while high on their own farts.
 
#54
I'd bet on no deal now.

The Tories are straight up delusional. They think they can make the EU fuck itself because magic reasons that dumb ass conservatives make up while high on their own farts.
"No Deal" effectively destroys the British economy past the point of no return doesn't it?
 
#57
I know that us yanks in the US have it bad with Trump and his brood but Jeez I couldn't imagine the anxiety I'd have from knowing that my country was about to fall off a cliff in 180 days.

Are there any signs that the UK and the EU are even close at all to a deal?
About as far away from a deal since Article 50 was announced. The Chequers deal (which May continuously fails to convince not only her whole party, nor government, nor public, but the whole EU) is as far as we've come in two years of sitting there doing virtually nothing. I know gifs and shitposts are commonplace to show how inept the Tory government have been during this, but my God the level of sheer panicked stasis has been staggering to the point of horrifying. A No Deal is the most likely outcome now. Fuck this nation.
 
#59
So you're saying that a populist campaign based on sending them immigrants home and not allow EU to have a say in your politics ended up badly? Totally unexpected.
 
#61
There should be real, serious consequences for lying to the public in this way. It's easy to point at Brits and say, "The people who voted Leave should have known the numbers they were cited were lies, it's their own fault" but beyond a certain point it's a social responsibility to protect the stupid from themselves.
 
#62
Sure, a percentage of the Leave vote were no doubt all-in nostalgic zealots but let's not ignore that a decent portion of the vote would have been a cry for help by communities that have been ignored for decades.

FPTP tends to completely ignore them, the referendum gave them equal voting power with everyone else, and they chose the option that could maybe change their lives.


Deception from the campaigns no doubt shaped their views, but let's not pretend all the leavers are a massive shower of idiots. The country has been mismanaged by multiple governments and there are deep divides across the country.


Also, what is really that wrong with the Canada-style deal? I fail to see how having no deal at all and exiting from the single market, would be better than an actually getting a deal like we got with the EU?
Canada style deal relies on propping a border in the Irish Sea, which won't happen while the Tories rely on the DUP votes. It also will seriously impact services, which is a huge part of our economy.
 
#63
Some crappy times ahead for a lot of people in the UK. That's the worst part, many of the ones that'll end up worse because of this wanted nothing to do with it. I'm sure the Boris Johnson's, Theresa May's and Nigel Farage's will happily carry on with their lives regardless of the outcome though...
 
#68
There should be real, serious consequences for lying to the public in this way. It's easy to point at Brits and say, "The people who voted Leave should have known the numbers they were cited were lies, it's their own fault" but beyond a certain point it's a social responsibility to protect the stupid from themselves.
If that's the case, shouldn't Tories be labeled a terrorist group?
 
#69
"No Deal" effectively destroys the British economy past the point of no return doesn't it?
I wouldn't be so pessimistic. The UK could still accept a Norway-style deal when they understand how fucked up their economy is with no access to the common market.
How does asking for the four basic freedoms that literally make up the common market "threaten the Union" of the UK? It's amazing how less than half a year is left to fix this mess, and the UK government is still producing garbage rhetoric like this. I guess it works well with a domestic audience, but it's not going to help in negotiations, now is it?
 
#71
Also, what is really that wrong with the Canada-style deal? I fail to see how having no deal at all and exiting from the single market, would be better than an actually getting a deal like we got with the EU?
i haven't the foggiest about the details that would stop or hinder a canda-style deal but one thing that stuck out to me was that it took around 7 years to get that deal in place. we now have less than six months.
 
#72
Sure, a percentage of the Leave vote were no doubt all-in nostalgic zealots but let's not ignore that a decent portion of the vote would have been a cry for help by communities that have been ignored for decades.

FPTP tends to completely ignore them, the referendum gave them equal voting power with everyone else, and they chose the option that could maybe change their lives.


Deception from the campaigns no doubt shaped their views, but let's not pretend all the leavers are a massive shower of idiots. The country has been mismanaged by multiple governments and there are deep divides across the country.




Canada style deal relies on propping a border in the Irish Sea, which won't happen while the Tories rely on the DUP votes. It also will seriously impact services, which is a huge part of our economy.
"The morons should be empathized with while they poison our water supply" isn't a great argument. In fact it's a good argument for taking their votes away and/or leaving them to finish withering under their own failures.
 
#75
To sum up how competent the UK government is and how realistic their statements are.



Check the Brexit thread in hangouts for more bleakness and mind-numbing insanity if you're masochistic enough.

Edit: I'm close to throwing my S8 out if the keyboard continues to be shit. My Sony phone could calibrate the touch inputs to my hand, why can't a much more modern phone?!
 
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#77
Sure, a percentage of the Leave vote were no doubt all-in nostalgic zealots but let's not ignore that a decent portion of the vote would have been a cry for help by communities that have been ignored for decades.
Spreading blatant b.s. like this should be a bannable offense
 
#80
i haven't the foggiest about the details that would stop or hinder a canda-style deal but one thing that stuck out to me was that it took around 7 years to get that deal in place. we now have less than six months.
Canada EU free trade agreement is mainly around import and tariffs.

The UK needs a much bigger deal which touches:
• Immigration and borders
• Rights of the EU citizens in the UK, and the rights of UK citizens in the EU (not tourists)
• EU bill (which UK has committed to paying while they were still in EU)
• EU benefits and funding, which UK should still receive as long as they pay the bill. This includes infrastucture projects which are underway, scientists funded by EU and so on.
 
#81
I'm not really familiar enough with the situation to understand what a Canada-style deal would actually mean and someone from the UK or with a better understanding would have to fill in here,
The thing is, no bastard in the UK knows either. The media keep saying, 'A Canada style deal, a this deal, a that deal', but nowhere have I ever seen it explained what the fuck these are.

I've heard so many Brexit dickheads talking about a Canada deal or whatever, but they don't know what the fuck it is. If you stop them and say, explain a Canada deal to me - they're stumped, they're fucking imbeciles. It takes two seconds to Google, but no one does. They just like to talk shit and pretend they know what's going on and are in denial about what a shitstack they voted for. They'll go on like this, blindly praising Brexit and voting Tory until it's too late and everything is fucked.

The ones who escape, unscathed, with their jobs and money or whatever, will praise Brexit as the best thing ever - see, nothing happened, it was all fine after all - in their stupid little bubble. The ones who do get fucked will be all - see, the evil EU has screwed us over! We were right!

There aren't enough expletives to express how I feel about Brexit and people who voted for it.
 
#83
Sure, a percentage of the Leave vote were no doubt all-in nostalgic zealots but let's not ignore that a decent portion of the vote would have been a cry for help by communities that have been ignored for decades.

Well they should have thought about it harder, because they're the same places that are going to be fucked the worst.
 
#84
Well they should have thought about it harder, because they're the same places that are going to be fucked the worst.


No doubt, but thinking about exactly what the EU does in lots of useful detail isn't exactly the top of the priorities.


A choice between more shit being shoveled as it has been for years or something different sounds more appealing though.
 
#86
i haven't the foggiest about the details that would stop or hinder a canda-style deal but one thing that stuck out to me was that it took around 7 years to get that deal in place. we now have less than six months.
The UK does benefit from starting from a position of regulatory alignment.

The issue is that the UK is starting from an unknown position as to what it could do in the future, as such a wise negotiator would seek to impose all sorts of conditions to prevent the UK from sidestepping or taking advantage of the agreement, though internal changes of their policies.

Things like tax breaks and subsidies would all be on the table to be formalized, this sort of thing would take time.

Also given the general incompetence and inability of the British Brexit negotiators to even settle on a position after 2 years, it doesn't really inspire confidence that they would know what to do in a trade negotiation.
 
#87
The UK seems reasonable compared to us in the US. You guys can reverse this, right? It just seems like nothing but a huge win to Russia and pensioners who don't really have any stake in the game at this point.
 
#88
No doubt, but thinking about exactly what the EU does in lots of useful detail isn't exactly the top of the priorities.


A choice between more shit being shoveled as it has been for years or something different sounds more appealing though.
Everyone this particular topic is dicussed, I can always point to Cornwall which about not getting funds, they were getting from the EU.

And I clearly say "whining" because they were warned and they still voted for Brexit, at large. So they actually do care about not getting more shit shovelled at them, despite voting for that very thing.
 
#89
Canada EU free trade agreement is mainly around import and tariffs.

The UK needs a much bigger deal which touches:
• Immigration and borders
• Rights of the EU citizens in the UK, and the rights of UK citizens in the EU (not tourists)
• EU bill (which UK has committed to paying while they were still in EU)
• EU benefits and funding, which UK should still receive as long as they pay the bill. This includes infrastucture projects which are underway, scientists funded by EU and so on.
The UK does benefit from starting from a position of regulatory alignment.

The issue is that the UK is starting from an unknown position as to what it could do in the future, as such a wise negotiator would seek to impose all sorts of conditions to prevent the UK from sidestepping or taking advantage of the agreement, though internal changes of their policies.

Things like tax breaks and subsidies would all be on the table to be formalized, this sort of thing would take time.

Also given the general incompetence and inability of the British Brexit negotiators to even settle on a position after 2 years, it doesn't really inspire confidence that they would know what to do in a trade negotiation.
oh cool so we're really fucked. awesome.
 
#90
Spreading blatant b.s. like this should be a bannable offense
how about you actually explore this country, talk to the people and have a look at how destitute a lot of areas have become in the last decade. voting for brexit is a dumb thing to do, but we are talking about large swaths of the country feeling like they dont have a voice, this gave them a voice, for better and for worse.

The UK seems reasonable compared to us in the US. You guys can reverse this, right? It just seems like nothing but a huge win to Russia and pensioners who don't really have any stake in the game at this point.
Brexit will cause lasting damage to the country that might span decades depending on how rough our departure from the EU is. It is much much worse than trump which will be out of office in a max of 6 more years (assuming the us doesn't become at dictatorship)
 
#91
The UK seems reasonable compared to us in the US. You guys can reverse this, right?
If the government decided to cancel, there's every sign that the EU would be open to it. But neither party wants to. The issue cuts across party lines, so neither Labour nor Conservative can afford to alienate their Leave voters if they want to win the next election.
 
#92
how about you actually explore this country, talk to the people and have a look at how destitute a lot of areas have become in the last decade. voting for brexit is a dumb thing to do, but we are talking about large swaths of the country feeling like they dont have a voice, this gave them a voice, for better and for worse.
This sounds like the families of terrorist bombers, "look at the life they've lived before you condemn them"

Fuck that. No constitution on this planet is a murder-suicide pact. If these weasley fucks can't get right, then perhaps we shouldn't coddle them as they soak poxy blankets in the well
 
#93
This sounds like the families of terrorist bombers, "look at the life they've lived before you condemn them"

Fuck that. No constitution on this planet is a murder-suicide pact. If these weasley fucks can't get right, then perhaps we shouldn't coddle them as they soak poxy blankets in the well
Funnily enough I do think we should analyse what drives people to terrorism. Because you stop terrorism by dealing with the root causes. Not by othering people and bombing the shit out of them (that will cause more terrorism)

likewise you stop people for voting for stupid damaging shit by looking at the root causes and dealing with them. Not by shouting that there isn't a problem and othering them. Do that and you get more people voting for more dumb shit.
 
#94
how about you actually explore this country, talk to the people and have a look at how destitute a lot of areas have become in the last decade. voting for brexit is a dumb thing to do, but we are talking about large swaths of the country feeling like they dont have a voice, this gave them a voice, for better and for worse.
They think they don't have a voice because of immigrants. Not because the 1% is fucking them over.

How many times must this be said?
 
#95
They think they don't have a voice because of immigrants. Not because the 1% is fucking them over.

How many times must this be said?
People think this because they are told that is the problem though. "immigrants putting a strain on the NHS", "immigrants taking our jobs" etc. Our shitty right wing press causes this problem. Racism is a learned behavior it doesn't come natural to people. To change this country you have to bring these people into the fold give them a positive message of change to rally around. the leave campaign was presenting a positive vision of change, the remain campaign was all "bad things will happen if we leave" which is true but that isnt how you engage people. the remain campaign needed to have a positive vision for being in the EU which they didn't do because thats pretty impossible when you blame all your pboelms on the EU like the political class like too.
 
#96
Everyone this particular topic is dicussed, I can always point to Cornwall which about not getting funds, they were getting from the EU.

And I clearly say "whining" because they were warned and they still voted for Brexit, at large. So they actually do care about not getting more shit shovelled at them, despite voting for that very thing.

one of the most poorest regions in northern europe?


Yeah sure, why wouldn't they vote for the status quo option when it's already so rosy.


I'm sure the fact that the EU funded them was as equally distributed as the lies peddled by politicians and tabloids regarding EU immigration causing all the problems.
 
#98
Sure, a percentage of the Leave vote were no doubt all-in nostalgic zealots but let's not ignore that a decent portion of the vote would have been a cry for help by communities that have been ignored for decades.

FPTP tends to completely ignore them, the referendum gave them equal voting power with everyone else, and they chose the option that could maybe change their lives.


Deception from the campaigns no doubt shaped their views, but let's not pretend all the leavers are a massive shower of idiots. The country has been mismanaged by multiple governments and there are deep divides across the country.
Liverpool, my home, was 'mismanaged' to the point that the ruling Tory scum were prepared to evacuate the city or deliberately force a 'managed decline' upon it. We still voted to remain.

If it wasn't the European funding, Liverpool would still resemble the crumbling wasteland much of it looked like during the 70's and 80's.

Mismanagement is one thing, but at no point during the run up to the referendum, was a single voter in any of these places given a single, solitary, halfway convincing reason to believe that leaving the Eu would fix any of their problems. Nothing that would convince anyone who wasn't an idiot at any rate.

So yeah, I'm sick of hearing excuses for them. They were idiots. Or Racists. Or both. As far as I'm concerned, those that still stand by their decision might as well be flat Earthers at this point. That's the level of delusion we've sunk to.
 
#99
And Maybot is still intent on playing hardball with the EU, hoping they'll blink first.

"No deal is better than a bad deal"

What's a good deal?, the one where you get all the perks of membership, with none of the negatives.
 
one of the most poorest regions in northern europe?


Yeah sure, why wouldn't they vote for the status quo option when it's already so rosy.


I'm sure the fact that the EU funded them was as equally distributed as the lies peddled by politicians and tabloids regarding EU immigration causing all the problems.
You started this thread with the assertion that these people weren't idiots.

They certainly managed to find that information after the vote.
 
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