BREXIT |OT| A minister always pays his debts

Absolutely, the lie over tuition killed them....

But UK voters being run from Scotland.... reckon that will not go well
Being run from the NI seems to be no problem with the press and voters right now. The Tories have given Labour every right to form a Coalition now, they’ve formed a coalition twice now. If Labour can do it on shared values and not a £2B bribe they would be ok imo.
 
Being run from the NI seems to be no problem with the press and voters right now. The Tories have given Labour every right to form a Coalition now, they’ve formed a coalition twice now. If Labour can do it on shared values and not a £2B bribe they would be ok imo.
I agree, we are just not use to coalitions in this country, it might work, the SNP might be able to keep Corbyn in check, still think Labour, LDems is better for the Uk overall
 
The LD's not choosing a rainbow coalition in 2010 in hindsight was a fatal mistake. The Conservatives have had an overall majority for 2 years from 2015 and in that time they have thoroughly destroyed the country. That is not hyperbole, we are in a Brexshit thread after all.

Remember this. Next time anyone says they vote Tory for the economy or stability or sensible governance. That is a lie. Historically it has always been. Just like the transparently corrupt GOP, a large part of a once sensible party has been ideologically corrupted since Thatcher.

If you vote Tory just admit you just want lower taxes, fuck you, got mine. I don't like intellectually false arguments. People like Heseltine, Clarke et al are few and far between. It is a party that is full of absolute corrupt shithounds like Redwood, Mogg, Fabricunt, Fox and apparatchiks like Gove, Hunt and Javid.

Well on News today I heard the Canadian trade minister (from Canada) saying that in their trade deal there is a clause that if the EU or Canada, give preferential deals to other countries, they have to pay the difference to the losing country

So he was saying it is impossible for the UK to have a Canada ++++ deal as the EU would have to pay massive penalties to Canada, the most UK can have is the same deal as them
Yes, that is how international agreements of this type work. We have known this for some time. They don't take years to negotiate because they are simple. They are full of clauses to ensure that both parties don't get screwed in the long term. The UK will never be able to have better than it has now. It is an impossibility. That is also why saying "we don't know how it will work out in the long term" is complete both sides weapons grade BS. It will be shitter in the long term because you are already damaging the long run potential.

The government is also at risk of being sued by foreign entities who have invested in the UK on the basis of SM, they are currently fighting this in court. Potential payouts go out into the hundreds of billions range.
 
Raab

"Our prime minister has been constructive and respectful. In return we heard jibes from senior leaders. And we saw a starkly one-sided approach to negotiation, where the EU’s theological approach allows no room for serious compromise.

And yet we are expected to cast aside the territorial integrity of our own country. If the EU want a deal, they need to get serious. And they need to do it now."

"Some people say that no deal is unthinkable. Wrong. What is unthinkable is that this government, or any British government, could be bullied by the threat of some kind of economic embargo, into signing a one-sided deal against our country’s interests.

He added:

The reality: yes there are risks and potential short term disruption, but we’ll deal with any problems that might arise in the event of no deal in a calm and sensible manner."

We are doomed. Seriously, Brexit needs canned like now. Are we really going to play this game for the next two months and keep lying. After all this crap if we don't get out of Brexit we will be the biggest idiots on the planet, not even talking soft Brexit, completely nipping it in the bud, it's a farce.
 
Raab

"Our prime minister has been constructive and respectful. In return we heard jibes from senior leaders. And we saw a starkly one-sided approach to negotiation, where the EU’s theological approach allows no room for serious compromise.

And yet we are expected to cast aside the territorial integrity of our own country. If the EU want a deal, they need to get serious. And they need to do it now."

"Some people say that no deal is unthinkable. Wrong. What is unthinkable is that this government, or any British government, could be bullied by the threat of some kind of economic embargo, into signing a one-sided deal against our country’s interests.

He added:

The reality: yes there are risks and potential short term disruption, but we’ll deal with any problems that might arise in the event of no deal in a calm and sensible manner."

We are doomed. Seriously, Brexit needs canned like now. Are we really going to play this game for the next two months and keep lying. After all this crap if we don't get out of Brexit we will be the biggest idiots on the planet, not even talking soft Brexit, completely nipping it in the bud, it's a farce.
You may recall we had a vote on it, and team Britane Grate won. They don't go away if you ignore democracy.
 
Hypothetically if the EU offered the UK the status quo minus freedom of movement would people accept that? It would never happen but interesting to see what actually sways people and what the UK government feels it could sell the public. Is it sad they would bite for that and the leaver public as well or would taking back control still matter?
 
Hypothetically if the EU offered the UK the status quo minus freedom of movement would people accept that? It would never happen but interesting to see what actually sways people and what the UK government feels it could sell the public. Is it sad they would bite for that and the leaver public as well or would taking back control still matter?
Maybe, but they wouldn't.

It is very difficult to have freedom of goods and services without freedom of movement.
 
Raab:

"I’ll tell you what’s not democracy. The efforts of a small, but influential group of senior politicians and establishment figures to overturn the result of the referendum. They want to stop us leaving.

You can just picture them, sitting in an expensive advertising agency, discussing how to claim that black is white. ‘Our research shows that the public doesn’t like the idea of a second referendum. That’s all right – we’ll rebrand it a people’s vote. They might buy that.

‘But there’s a real sense that leave won fair and square. Most people just want to move on. Don’t worry – we’ll bankroll a campaign to scare the wits out of them. Hang on – the Project Fear stuff didn’t work too well first time around.

‘That’s because it wasn’t scary enough. This time we’ll claim that no deal means patients won’t get their medicines, mobile phone roaming charges will go through the roof and space debris will fall from the sky.’

Honestly, it would be pathetic if it wasn’t so dangerous."
 
Raab:

"I’ll tell you what’s not democracy. The efforts of a small, but influential group of senior politicians and establishment figures to overturn the result of the referendum. They want to stop us leaving.

You can just picture them, sitting in an expensive advertising agency, discussing how to claim that black is white. ‘Our research shows that the public doesn’t like the idea of a second referendum. That’s all right – we’ll rebrand it a people’s vote. They might buy that.

‘But there’s a real sense that leave won fair and square. Most people just want to move on. Don’t worry – we’ll bankroll a campaign to scare the wits out of them. Hang on – the Project Fear stuff didn’t work too well first time around.

‘That’s because it wasn’t scary enough. This time we’ll claim that no deal means patients won’t get their medicines, mobile phone roaming charges will go through the roof and space debris will fall from the sky.’

Honestly, it would be pathetic if it wasn’t so dangerous."
But, like, they're stockpiling meds.
 
Hypothetically if the EU offered the UK the status quo minus freedom of movement would people accept that? It would never happen but interesting to see what actually sways people and what the UK government feels it could sell the public. Is it sad they would bite for that and the leaver public as well or would taking back control still matter?
The majority of people who voted Leave, had 'too many immigrants' as their first reason.

So, yeah, fucked up.
 
Wait, since the first two are true, what's this space debris thing?
There's a space debris tracking system that the EU is running and that the UK will no longer have access to if things continue like this. Without that, launching and maintaining satellites becomes a lottery since at any one moment a random piece of junk from our decades of neglect and failures in space-faring can zip past the horizon and collide with your hugely expensive piece of kit at lightning fast speeds.
They will lose access just because there's no deal in place, not because the EU is unwiling or unable to continue supplying the data. There's alternative trackers too (the USA offer one, for example), so it's just the unwillingness or disability of the UK to plan ahead that's the issue there. All they did is barf out a mini warning in passing during the recent-ish government impact assessment release.



Also, whaaaaat theeeee fuuuuuck?
Not this part:
One in five British companies would move at least some of their operations to the European Union in the event of a “no-deal” Brexit, according to a survey on Friday.
We know no-deal Brexit will bring the pain. This, too is not new:
A Reuters poll of economists at the start of this month put the odds of a no-deal Brexit at one in four.
However, I do struggle with this small sentence that can be found near the end of the short article:
The BCC survey also showed 62 percent of firms taking part had not performed a risk assessment of the impact of Brexit.
Are you Brits insane? Is there lead in your water pipes or something? It's not even "no-deal Brexit", it's "Brexit", full stop. I mean yes, the next paragraph seems to imply that the government isn't providing even the most basic guidance and is leaving the poor fucks to their own devices, but come on, even that can be included in an assessment.
Even the most basic three-page "yep we're hosed" powerpoint presentation made by an intern on their own time would help. How do these companies not crash and burn if they're marching into the future with blinders on and no plan...?
 
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Are you Brits insane? Is there lead in your water pipes or something? It's not even "no-deal Brexit", it's "Brexit", full stop. I mean yes, the next paragraph seems to imply that the government isn't providing even the most basic guidance and is leaving the poor fucks to their own devices, but come on, even that can be included in an assessment. Even the most basic three-page "yep we're hosed" powerpoint presentation made by an intern on their own time would help. How do these companies not crash and burn, if theyr're marching into the future with blinders on and no plan...?
Doing contingency planning when you don't know what the end agreement will look like less than 6 months out would probably be very pricy and very, very difficult.

This is basically all on May.
 
Raab:

"I’ll tell you what’s not democracy. The efforts of a small, but influential group of senior politicians and establishment figures to overturn the result of the referendum. They want to stop us leaving.

You can just picture them, sitting in an expensive advertising agency, discussing how to claim that black is white. ‘Our research shows that the public doesn’t like the idea of a second referendum. That’s all right – we’ll rebrand it a people’s vote. They might buy that.

‘But there’s a real sense that leave won fair and square. Most people just want to move on. Don’t worry – we’ll bankroll a campaign to scare the wits out of them. Hang on – the Project Fear stuff didn’t work too well first time around.

‘That’s because it wasn’t scary enough. This time we’ll claim that no deal means patients won’t get their medicines, mobile phone roaming charges will go through the roof and space debris will fall from the sky.’

Honestly, it would be pathetic if it wasn’t so dangerous."
Yikes. That snake has bet his new house on Brexit.
 
Hypothetically if the EU offered the UK the status quo minus freedom of movement would people accept that? It would never happen but interesting to see what actually sways people and what the UK government feels it could sell the public. Is it sad they would bite for that and the leaver public as well or would taking back control still matter?
Suspect if it was offered that the politicians would take it and the UK people would accept it, since it would put an end to those filthy foreign EU immigrants, although as mentioned having freedom of goods without freedom of movement is not easy.
Goes without saying the EU wouldn't offer the UK that since it would end up with a bunch of countries asking for that too causing a whole lot of bigger issues, it is the sort of thing if offered I would be writing to MEP about it (same as if the EU offered the UK back its position).

Hammond just said "The [EU] says Chequers won't work - but that’s what people said about the lightbulb in 1878.

WHAT
THE
FUCK?
WTF about sums it up perfectly.
 
Doing contingency planning when you don't know what the end agreement will look like less than 6 months out would probably be very pricy and very, very difficult.

This is basically all on May.
Surely the whole point of contingencies is to attempt to plan for the unknown?
 
Edit: Oh, I see. This is the "shitshow" thing the dude in the hilarious knight armour talked about a few months ago, huh.
Doing contingency planning when you don't know what the end agreement will look like less than 6 months out would probably be very pricy and very, very difficult.

This is basically all on May.
This is not about full-on contingency planning. This is about them not even doing the most basic due diligence. Even "the government doesn't supply us with numbers and facts" is a scenario that needs to be taken into consideration, otherwise there will only be panic and surprised flailing about once Brexit hits.

No impact assessment at all means they're flying blind. Six months out, and more than half (close to two thirds!) of the companies in that poll don't even "officially know" what Brexit will mean for them. Even vaguely, like worst and best case evaluations. Concrete numbers and scenarios, not just "it's gonna suck". Something the upper echelon can use to steer the company and make decisions on. It's OK to hold on actually deciding on stuff until the very last second, but without enough information any potential plans are at risk of being utterly useless. Regardless of the size of the actual company.

"Keep calm and carry on" strikes once more, I guess.
 
I'm not a business owner, but I'd think the costs between "Planning for Soft Brexit" and "Planning for every single Brexit scenario from EEA to hard" differ significantly.
Yes. But that is just planning, not executing.

Planning is not free, but it is going to be better to execute on a plan, than fly by the seat of your pants.
 
Edit: Oh, I see. This is the "shitshow" thing the dude in the hilarious knight armour talked about a few months ago, huh.

This is not about full-on contingency planning. This is about them not even doing the most basic due diligence. Even "the government doesn't supply us with numbers and facts" is a scenario that needs to be taken into consideration, otherwise there will only be panic and surprised flailing about once Brexit hits.

No impact assessment at all means they're flying blind. Six months out, and more than half (close to two thirds!) of the companies in that poll don't even "officially know" what Brexit will mean for them. Even vaguely, like worst and best case evaluations. Concrete numbers and scenarios, not just "it's gonna suck". Something the upper echelon can use to steer the company and make decisions on. It's OK to hold on actually deciding on stuff until the very last second, but without enough information any potential plans are at risk of being utterly useless. Regardless of the size of the actual company.

"Keep calm and carry on" strikes once more, I guess.
Pretty much. I work for my brother's company, we only have about 15 employees, and our work is all 'services' - data analysis and consultation and stuff. The general vibe is 'we hope Brexit won't happen', which is not really a contingency plan.

The problem is, of course, no-one has any idea how its going to look yet really. So, whilst it would seem sensible to batten down the hatches, you can't really run a business by reducing all spending and passing up opportunities for two years in case things go badly, especially when there is no actual government briefing that 'hey, things are going badly'.

For me, this is why its so astonishing that people are still talking up - or even embracing - no deal/hard Brexit. In that scenario the pound crashes, inflation leaps, then interest rates follow. Lots of people become unemployed by the crash in the pound, and then further businesses collapse as they struggle to service their debts due to the interest rate, so more become unemployed. This increases demand on state finance, whilst the govt is presumably finding it harder to issue bonds because, you know, they have just completely fucked the economy. Am I missing something? This is what no deal means right?

I'm not a student of economics, so welcome any corrections to that scenario. But, in those circumstances, how do you contingency plan? Personally I'm stockpiling food, putting off buying a house and considering converting my savings into USD...
 
Conservative conference week is one of the most depressing of the year. A moment where the worst, most corrupt people get to glorify their ambitions, throw sand at peoples eyes and be applauded for it all.
 
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Man who can't even remember where his wife is from in offensive lack of history or nuance shocker

I love how he's another leader favourite. Fucking hell. Jeremy Hunt. PM. Can you imagine.
 
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