PhD paper on The Last Jedi hate [directed at Rian Johnson]: mostly alt-right trolls, incl. Russians

I'm going to write a paper arguing that the quality of a piece of Star Wars media is directly related to how many additional words it causes to be entered into Wookipedia.

*next movie mentions 'mandalorian crushgaunt', gets boosted to rank #1*
 
Or the fact that they called it a fleet destroyer and would have absolutely been involved in a space battle when they followed through hyper speed unless were implying it isn't capable of hitting a fleet by having just a little bit more range than any other ship on the field. Which again, if thats the case, thats hilarious.

I have reason to believe a war machine called a fleet destoryer could in fact have like a hundred yards more range that could hit the resistance ships than the other ships chasing them in this movie which is why I am saying poe made the right decision. And in if it didn't, then lol.
The ventral cannon below the Fulminatrix was meant for orbital bombardment, i.e. stationery targets. It would not have been able to target a fleet in constant motion.

Edit: corrected ship name
 
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Comes off as desperate. This movie made some people feel some things they weren't ready for a Star Wars movie to make them feel. The anger is an attempt to regain control. Most of the ultra toxic shit is trolls and bots, but most people who dislike TLJ have really awful or half-baked takes on it. It's amazing how twisted the film's themes and even basic plot elements get in the heads of the people who reacted badly to it
ResetEra continues to demonstrate that a lot of folks that love TLJ are still absolutely confuddled why others don't like it, even though we've had 5726927471 threads about the movie.

None of my friends or coworkers liked TLJ...

Are we Russians? O:
As long as you didn't threaten Rian's life over twitter, I think you're good.
 
^^^


Is this the part where you totally don't acknowledge cinemascore? You know, the standard for the film industry?
CinemaScore's shtick is their polling being accurate to the box office performance of a movie. As some people seem to want to continuously ignore, TLJ lost 700 million dollars against TFA. That's why I'm not invoking CinemaScore here, because their results in this particular instance are inconsistent with their methodology.
 
ResetEra continues to demonstrate that a lot of folks that love TLJ are still absolutely confuddled why others don't like it, even though we've had 5726927471 threads about the movie.
When people make threads that display a critical flaw in one's ability to understand the basics of film storytelling when they feel slighted by a movie some confusion is warranted. At this point it isn't even confusion. It's just that the criticisms are eye rolling. For example, see the hot take below about how TLJ made less money than the return of the star wars film franchise after a decade.

As some people seem to want to continuously ignore, TLJ lost 700 million dollars against TFA.
Stop. Posting. Hot. Takes.
 
Sounds like a pretty shitty "fleet destroyer".
Well...they did leave a hole in the Death Star that allowed some street rat to blow it to pieces. (No Rogue One replies!)

A little? Sure. But one thread and one guy here still isn't enough to overcome the bajillion of logical, rational posts in the OTs after TLJ released.
 
Well...they did leave a hole in the Death Star that allowed some street rat to blow it to pieces. (No Rogue One replies!)
Haha maybe the next spinoff movie will cover why the architect of the dreadnaught/entire armada of the first order had such insufficient weaponry to his targets slightly in front of them; it was an inside job the entire time by jin's distant step uncle!
 
Why are there so many takes about people who don't like TLJ being alt-right assholes? It's really weird.
The movie has some plot points that put women in positions of lidership, or agency. A lot of the "Why did Holdo did not tell Poe the plan" criticism is rooted in that. It has a diverse cast, too.
 
CinemaScore's shtick is their polling being accurate to the box office performance of a movie. As some people seem to want to continuously ignore, TLJ lost 700 million dollars against TFA. That's why I'm not invoking CinemaScore here, because their results in this particular instance are inconsistent with their methodology.
It's % drop was pretty damn close to ESB's drop from ANH.
 
"I thought it needed to be done," wow, that's a good one. Without the dreadnought destroyed it's unclear how many more of them might have been killed over time, and destroying the dreadnought was their original mission, for which they were prepared to take heavy losses -- in fact that was why all the bombers were thre. The bombers were single-occupancy vehicles. Losing 10 of them to take out a dreadnought is only arguably a bad outcome and is arguably quite a good one, nevermind that it comes nowhere near "dozens" and especially not "hundreds" of people, and probably was an outcome they were prepared for in the original plan. But hey, keep pretending it was all Poe's nutty idea if that helps you make a shitty argument on the internet.

Uh, we were talking about other flaws -- namely being authoritarian. Are you okay?
I was disappointed by the last Jedi but you are doing a poor job of criticizing it.
 
Why are there so many takes about people who don't like TLJ being alt-right assholes? It's really weird.
There are surely a ton of alt-right assholes out there that hate the movie for shitty reasons. The frustrating part is when people in our own community fling that shit around here like those who dislike are these same alt-righters. I mean...surely there are some here? Maybe? But still. I prefer not to get lumped in on ResetEra. We're family here...or something something Vin Diesel.
 
You mean Cinemascore? It got an "A", same as The Force Awakens and Rouge One.

Edit: A Cinemascore is obtained by polling audiences as they leave the theatre. RT can be filled by anyone, multiple times.
But then that would require tlj haters to acknowledge they're using flawed methodology to justify the weird hate boners. Dislike the movie all you want (even if it's because you aren't paying attention to the themes) but the fixation on stats to justify it is so weird.
 
...What am I looking at?
The fact a sequel making less money than it's predecessor is incredibly common for the film industry, including star wars. Curious, what's your opinion on Empire Strikes Back not making as much money, (and let's be specific, almost the EXACT dropoff as TLJ), as A New Hope?

Why are there so many takes about people who don't like TLJ being alt-right assholes? It's really weird.
Because there's a lot of crossover between "people who didn't like the last jedi" and alt right assholes. Specifically the rhetoric that people use to disparage the movie as they've been slighted in the same way.
 
CinemaScore's shtick is their polling being accurate to the box office performance of a movie. As some people seem to want to continuously ignore, TLJ lost 700 million dollars against TFA. That's why I'm not invoking CinemaScore here, because their results in this particular instance are inconsistent with their methodology.
Let's compare movie 1 to movie 2 of each trilogy (worldwide).

The Empire Strikes Back made 69.43% of what Star Wars did.

Attack of the Clones made 63.23% of what The Phantom Menace did.

The Last Jedi made 64.43% of what The Force Awakens made.

It falls in line with what the franchise has dropped from first to second movie in the trilogies.

Worth a note, each trilogy's final film made more than the second film but less than the third film, so unless something surprising happens, expect Episode IX to follow that pattern.
 
And you don't even have to take your word for it to believe this. When the resitance is on their dying breath and theyre actively creating a mutiny against their own people you know your command style fucked up.


I mean even if we consider it doesn't have the range (we saw it hand pretty impressive range destroying that base on a planet below which would likely be just as far as the resistance), they could have easily hyper jumped just a little bit in front of the path of the resistance and gotten in range that way. Theres like a million ways they could have just destroyed the resiatcne but they didn't because johnson just didn't have them do it.
Again, Star Wars space physics are about as sensible as the biology of Tolkien's Balrogs. There are a million ways to take it apart, down to trying to figure out why a fucking laser out of a lightsaber arbitrarily stops at a length of 2-3 meters. You can tear it apart from that perspective, but you can do the same to any star wars film.

I haven't commented on Leia's handling of this or any other situation, so maybe the people who want to "perceive" something can take a step back and stop projecting? Leia actually did a good job in a scene or two connecting with Poe as a leader and made him understand a lot more about leadership and decision making. I commented on Holdo talking to him with open contempt and derision.

Nobody cares what you think of the analogy. There is no context in which leaders mocking and grimacing at subordinates and demanding they follow orders unquestioningly is an admirable approach, and the explanation we are given for the plans being a secret ("Holdo wasn't interested in being a hero") made no sense. It was bad writing, and it was all a contrivance to spin off a B plot that went nowhere. Criticizing all of this is 100% okay. Sorry.
Holdo is in an identical position as Leia, and responds in an identical way, demoting Poe when he stepped out of line and told him to put up and shut up or else he'll get worse. She has history with him so we see some affection for the guy shine through while Holdo does not, but otherwise Leia and Holdo are basically in agreement in terms of telling Poe off.

As for the rest, okay, then no one cares about you making shitty analogies with faulty logic behind them either, especially when they involve willful misunderstandings of the movie. Plus, if you're just gonna dismiss others and make definitive statements on arguments, as if - and how's this for irony - you're some kind of authority on film criticism that people should listen to, then I don't see the point in taking you seriously either. Though, I knew that before this conversation as well and I should really know better at this point than to give you the time of day. Sorry.

And just to be clear for third parties reading this - There is no sacred cow and TLJ is certainly not one. Everyone can criticize it. But criticism can be well done and it can be poorly done. Uncelestial wording, that it's okay to criticize TLJ, implies I'm saying it's not okay to do so, and that rationalization for his bad criticism is one he's pulled off before. Criticize any piece of art you feel is worth doing so, but for the love of God, do it better than comparing your mundane job to a fucking military resistance command at war.
 
A little? Sure. But one thread and one guy here still isn't enough to overcome the bajillion of logical, rational posts in the OTs after TLJ released.
"Rational," literally seeing evidence ITT that the majority of TLJ criticism is again, based in one's critically flawed ability to understand basic film storytelling and/or the ability to follow plot beats and pay attention coupled with a baffling amount of scrutiny over the logic of a movie with space wizards and lasers. You know at some point someone legitimately tried to use math and diameters to argue that Finn's suicide run would've worked? That's how bad TLJ criticism is.
 
TLJ is a beautiful troll beacon:

Female producer
Diverse cast
Anti toxic masculinity message
Anti war message
Message of peace and love over conflict

When I see anti KK messages and other strange criticisms about the movie here on resetera and other places I’m always curious about the poster behind them and what their outlook on life is. They never seem like fun people to hang around with to put it politely.
 
It's % drop was pretty damn close to ESB's drop from ANH.
ESB is considered by many to be the best Star Wars movie ever, so even if it financially under-performed compared to ANH, it's still regarded as a masterpiece of film-making. I don't think many people share the same opinion of TLJ. It's also about excitement going into the third movie of the trilogy. As I've said in other threads, right now we're going off a movie that's been loudly (if not necessarily widely) panned, and also a downright woeful performance with Solo. I'm not going to pretend like I know what the sentiment toward Star Wars was in 1981, but going forward right now, do you think Star Wars has momentum?

The fact a sequel making less money than it's predecessor is incredibly common for the film industry, including star wars. Curious, what's your opinion on Empire Strikes Back not making as much money, (and let's be specific, almost the EXACT dropoff as TLJ), as A New Hope?


Because there's a lot of crossover between "people who didn't like the last jedi" and alt right assholes. Specifically the rhetoric that people use to disparage the movie as they've been slighted in the same way.
Let's compare movie 1 to movie 2 of each trilogy (worldwide).

The Empire Strikes Back made 69.43% of what Star Wars did.

Attack of the Clones made 63.23% of what The Phantom Menace did.

The Last Jedi made 64.43% of what The Force Awakens made.

It falls in line with what the franchise has dropped from first to second movie in the trilogies.

Worth a note, each trilogy's final film made more than the second film but less than the third film, so unless something surprising happens, expect Episode IX to follow that pattern.
See above ^
 
Why are there so many takes about people who don't like TLJ being alt-right assholes? It's really weird.
Just a way to bash and dismiss someone with a different opinion. Sure there are plenty of alt-right assholes who hate the movie for alt-right asshole reasons but the majority of people who don't like it just don't like for whatever reason.
 
Social media is full of asswipes, bots, and meddling Russians. That much is obvious.

That said, TLJ wasn't really a good movie at all. So those asswipe Russian bots are a waste of time...Unless...Putin was personally disappointed in Rian's approach haha. Then I could see the purpose lol.
 
...Criticize any piece of art you feel is worth doing so, but for the love of God, do it better than comparing your mundane job to a fucking military resistance command at war.
Agreed. Except my job IS very much like being a resistance commander at war. You see, I have agents who report up to me----rebels, if you will. And we make stressful, life-or-death decisions every day. Like how long to leave a customer's modem unplugged before we tell them to plug it back in. Or when we ran out of coffee today, and my team had a meltdown. Thankfully, I got the troops in line and saved the day by finding the facilities' secret stash of Folgers in the basement closet. So uh...yeah. I know a thing or two about commanding in a war.
 
ESB is considered by many to be the best Star Wars movie ever, so even if it financially under-performed compared to ANH, it's still regarded as a masterpiece of film-making. I don't think many people share the same opinion of TLJ. It's also about excitement going into the third movie of the trilogy. As I've said in other threads, right now we're going off a movie that's been loudly (if not necessarily widely) panned, and also a downright woeful performance with Solo. I'm not going to pretend like I know what the sentiment toward Star Wars was in 1981, but going forward right now, do you think Star Wars has momentum?
Fam just take the L for trying to argue that TLJ's revenue dropoff was an abnormality.


First of all you already deserve an L for trying to argue "This film only made 1.3 billion and you guys are ignoring that."
 
Well...they did leave a hole in the Death Star that allowed some street rat to blow it to pieces. (No Rogue One replies!)

A little? Sure. But one thread and one guy here still isn't enough to overcome the bajillion of logical, rational posts in the OTs after TLJ released.
It's been way more than one thread or one person.
 
You keep claiming things that are factually not true. You also go from everyone hated it to countless did to mixed. Like make up your mind.



Awww yes.



Oh no, the logic, I am crushed beneath it.
I never said everyone hated it. What are you on about? Countless people hated it. Where on that statement does it state everyone?
 
So has anyone else actually read the paper?

Pretty small sample and limited study, all told. Only about 967 tweets/accounts targeted @rianjohnson, of which 206 were negative, of which ~50.9% were classified as politically motivated, and of about 16 accounts were suspected of being Russian trolls.

Also kinda sad but not surprising that only 113 of those 967, both positive and negative, were women. Although of this dude's findings, only five of the 113 were in the negative camp.

Two points to dock. Guy straight injecting a "not all Star Wars fans!" section in his paper. And citing Scott Mendelson in his paper.
Thanks for summarizing and actually reading the paper. This should go in the op.

Overall, we're looking at roughly 10 percent politically motivated tweets which isn't that much and I thought it would be more tbh.

Clearly there are overlapping notions across the group of people who didn't like the movie based on taste, fandom and rational reasoning and the group of people who didn't like it based on their political paradigms (alt-right, incel, gamer gate).

And stop discussing star physics in this thread. This is not what's being discussed here.
 
Again, Star Wars space physics are about as sensible as the biology of Tolkien's Balrogs. There are a million ways to take it apart, down to trying to figure out why a fucking laser out of a lightsaber arbitrarily stops at a length of 2-3 meters. You can tear it apart from that perspective, but you can do the same to any star wars film.
By and large I agree. The issue is when characters are the driving force of conflict for making such decisions in addition to the weird space rules (some of which rian just upended from the rest of the movies in order to have his chase sequences). It wasn't just the fact that the physics are weird, its that theyre inconsistent with whats been established about them in this fictional universe that came before it in addition to character's making really dumb decisions.

Why are there so many takes about people who don't like TLJ being alt-right assholes? It's really weird.
Because a really large group of man children hate seeing women in prominent roles in their star wars movies so it pollutes the discussion. As to why it happens so freuqnelty here, its because a few star wars fans can't handle people not liking the movie and want to attribute it to that same sexism/alt-rightism you see on youtube (and now twitter given this paper, but really that should only be confirming what many of us already thought anyway)
 
ESB is considered by many to be the best Star Wars movie ever, so even if it financially under-performed compared to ANH, it's still regarded as a masterpiece of film-making. I don't think many people share the same opinion of TLJ. It's also about excitement going into the third movie of the trilogy. As I've said in other threads, right now we're going off a movie that's been loudly (if not necessarily widely) panned, and also a downright woeful performance with Solo. I'm not going to pretend like I know what the sentiment toward Star Wars was in 1981, but going forward right now, do you think Star Wars has momentum?





See above ^
You really are not consistent at all. You don't like the methodology of the legit movie aggregate for reasons that aren't logical compared to other SW drop offs. Then you want to use a site anyone can use, even bots, to justify it instead. When it was mostly bots anyway. Then you handwave away your logical inconsistency.

I will never understand TLJ haters.
 
Out of curiosity, what was the reception to The Empire Strikes Back at release? Was it as well received then as it is now?

Personally speaking, I'm optimistic for the future of Star Wars. The Last Jedi was fantastic, and I think Episode IX will end up just fine.
 
It's been way more than one thread or one person.
Word. And I could go find a bajillion logical, rational posts too. We could go back-and-forth on it, and eventually we'd have to determine a ratio of stupid-to-smart posts in order to figure out which has been worse. Then someone would have to go through about 5 million threads and 5 billion posts, and by that time I give up and you win because I'm too lazy. In the end, I'm simply arguing there are a lot of not-great posts on here about why people don't like TLJ, and I genuinely have yet to see someone posts actual reasons why I personally dislike TLJ, or many others who have taken the time to rationally express themselves in our many threads. Instead, I see generalizations.
 
The way people talk about TLJ...I'll remember it for the rest of my life. I'm not surprised Russia found a way to exploit this because most people who liked the film online were often insufferable. And so were most people who didn't like it.
 
Humor in intense situations, especially at the expense of space nazis, who're definitely not inspired by the real nazis, is TOTALLY out of the ordinary for Starwars:
I can't see the first clip but the second clip is eight seconds. The stupid prank call was much much longer. Felt like a lifetime it was so awful
 
Out of curiosity, what was the reception to The Empire Strikes Back at release? Was it as well received then as it is now?

Personally speaking, I'm optimistic for the future of Star Wars. The Last Jedi was fantastic, and I think Episode IX will end up just fine.
ESB's reviews were a lot more mixed compared to ANH at the time.
https://www.starwars.com/news/critical-opinion-the-empire-strikes-back-original-reviews
“There is no sense that this ebullient, youthful saga is running thin in imagination or that it has begun to depend excessively in its marvelous special effects — that it is in any danger, in short, of stiffening into mannerism or mere billion-dollar style.”
The Empire Strikes Back is not a truly terrible movie. It’s a nice movie. It’s not, by any means, as nice as Star Wars. It’s not as fresh and funny and surprising and witty, but it is nice and inoffensive and, in a way that no one associated with it need be ashamed of, it’s also silly. Attending to it is a lot like reading the middle of a comic book. It is amusing in fitful patches but you’re likely to find more beauty, suspense, discipline, craft and art when watching a New York harbor pilot bring the Queen Elizabeth 2 into her Hudson River berth, which is what The Empire Strikes Back most reminds me of. It’s a big, expensive, time-consuming, essentially mechanical operation. The Empire Strikes Back is about as personal as a Christmas card from a bank.”
 
Out of curiosity, what was the reception to The Empire Strikes Back at release? Was it as well received then as it is now?
Return of the jedi specifically has scenes that are direct responses to fan disbelief/backlash to the revelations in empire strikes back.

I can't see the first clip but the second clip is eight seconds. The stupid prank call was much much longer. Felt like a lifetime it was so awful
The first video is five minutes. Longer than the prank call.
 
I can't see the first clip but the second clip is eight seconds. The stupid prank call was much much longer. Felt like a lifetime it was so awful
You have the most fitting avatar of anyone in the history of GAF/ResetEra. It matches the tone of your posts perfectly lol.

The entire prank call (not just the joke, the full call) was not even one minute of screen time.
 
By and large I agree. The issue is when characters are the driving force of conflict for making such decisions in addition to the weird space rules (some of which rian just upended from the rest of the movies in order to have his chase sequences). It wasn't just the fact that the physics are weird, its that theyre inconsistent with whats been established about them in this fictional universe that came before it in addition to character's making really dumb decisions.
That's a totally different argument that I am not interested in having because Star Wars, even from it's inception, was never about consistency. That's why there are strong romantic undertones to Luke and Leia's relationship, only to find out they're siblings in the third movie. Nothing...NOTHING... is consistent in star wars and it never has been and it never will be, ever.

BTW, don't think I don't notice you trying to move the goalposts away from you having to prove that killing the Fleet Killer was vital to the Resistance surviving the rest of the movie. Even if SW were consistent, where is it established, even past movies, that the Fleet Killer specifically had the utility to kill fleeing ships in a way that other ships couldn't?
 
long-term this movie will be remembered as one of the best in the franchise. i have zero doubts about that. it's a fantastic film.
I think it's greatness will depend heavily on IX, but I could be wrong. If IX really mucks things up, I think it might retroactively tear down TLJ and TFA. Though I suppose one could argue that TLJ would shine brighter. I always let endings heavily influence my overall love-or-hate for a trilogy though, so I might be out of the norm.

Ok. I've spent way too long in here. Just when I thought I was out on these threads, they pull me back in.
 
You have the most fitting avatar of anyone in the history of GAF/ResetEra. It matches the tone of your posts perfectly lol.

The entire prank call (not just the joke, the full call) was not even one minute of screen time.
It was closer to a minute than eight seconds. And it was not funny in the slightest. Really dragged on way too long. Thx on avatar mention
 
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