PhD paper on The Last Jedi hate [directed at Rian Johnson]: mostly alt-right trolls, incl. Russians

Yes. You want to post some joke clips that are longer than 8 seconds? And closer to a minute? And as awful as this joke?
Yo, A LOT of Star Wars movies have joke scenes that last around a minute (often longer!).

Are you pretending like that scene in AOTC of a badly done CGI Threepio having prat falls in the Droid Foundry getting his head taken off and stuck on a battle droid didn't happen?
 
That's a totally different argument that I am not interested in having because Star Wars, even from it's inception, was never about consistency. That's why there are strong romantic undertones to Luke and Leia's relationship, only to find out they're siblings in the third movie. Nothing...NOTHING... is consistent in star wars and it never has been and it never will be, ever.

BTW, don't think I don't notice you trying to move the goalposts away from you having to prove that killing the Fleet Killer was vital to the Resistance surviving the rest of the movie. Even if SW were consistent, where is it established, even past movies, that the Fleet Killer specifically had the utility to kill fleeing ships in a way that other ships couldn't?
Thats fine if you don't want to have that discussion however it still holds true that people can have an issue with the consistency of how the reality of this fictional world operates because this movie doesn't exist within a vaccum. Most people aren't mad because it didn't adhere to actual real world physics (although in many instances it appears that it does so outside of the force stuff). If you don't want to have a discussion on that fine but don't act as if adhereing to real world physics is why its still to be mad at this stuff when thats miissing the point entirely.

Um excuse me but you were the one that moved the conversation towards real world physics, not myself. I argued that it could be inferred that the dreadnaught could have that capacity because of the dialogue and the character's actions towards it, as well as seeing the ship have the capablity to destroy a base on a planet below it. Hell even before Leia called the ships back she still deployed them for the explicit attempt to destroy the dreadnaught. If it wasn't anymore special than the other ships why was it the entire focus of the attack? And even if I grant you that it didn't have the range (again lol), why not just hyper jump slightly ahead of the resistance and pinch them? The dreadnaught needed to be destroyed, unless the premediated plan to deploy the resistance ships to attack it was completely arbitrary and then we need to speculate whether general Leia is going senile, which I would argue certainly isn't the case.
 
It was closer to a minute than eight seconds. And it was not funny in the slightest. Really dragged on way too long. Thx on avatar mention
Yeah, the second the movie opened with a "yo mama joke" I was worried.

They did such a horrid job with TLJ that it singlehandedly killed all my interest in any future Star Wars movies. I'll give them props for that.
 
....have you seen any of the old SW movies. This is a legit question.
Yo, A LOT of Star Wars movies have joke scenes that last around a minute (often longer!).

Are you pretending like that scene in AOTC of a badly done CGI Threepio having prat falls in the Droid Foundry getting his head taken off and stuck on a battle droid didn't happen?
Yep. Seen them all except ham solo.

Okay that scene sounds terrible (honestly can't remember). Doesn't mean the prank call wasn't terrible. It was
 
It was closer to a minute than eight seconds. And it was not funny in the slightest. Really dragged on way too long.
A manbaby space nazi who tattle tales on his allies trying to make a serious "You're all doomed" speech and totally not being taken seriously by the same dude who pointed out Kylo's goofy voice distortion in TFA is quite funny.
 
Topic Title: "Last Jedi haters are alt-right trolls and russian bots"
Actual Data: "Twitter users who directly messaged Rian Johnson to troll Last Jedi are mostly alt-right and russian bots."

These are substantially different conclusions.
Yeah. I like to think the majority of people who didn't like TLJ weren't enough a dick to try to directly contact him about it.
Thank you. This was my exact first thought.

Jedi like beer. Sith like beer. Everyone likes beer.
Yup. Extremely misleading title.
I think there is a difference between Jedi haters and people who didn't like the movies, so to me the title is fine.
 
Yep. Seem them all except ham solo.

Okay that scene sounds terrible (honestly can't remember). Doesn't mean the prank call wasn't terrible. It was
Can't find that scene online but the above is him going around as a battle droid saying dumb puns.

Prank call was great and fitting of Poe. *shrug*.
 
The idea that Star Wars is meant to be "serious" like its a Christopher Nolan Batman movie or something baffles me. Star Wars is goofy with lots of jokes and gags.
 
There are many jokes in Star Wars movies but opening your movie on a shitty joke is on another level and i wanna see the defense for that.
The defense is that the joke was really funny!

Not my defense, mind you. I agree it was garbage. But that's the defense you're gonna get
 
I kind of wonder what the point of Rian Johnson having a Twitter is. Does he talk to people? Does he get interesting feedback or discover anything new? It just seems like a total shitpit. Twitter has to go.
 
The world has become really weird.

Trolling is weird enough by itself. But now it’s state sponsored.

The internet has been such a negative shit hole for the past few years. We need to find a way to turn it around somehow.
 
I kind of wonder what the point of Rian Johnson having a Twitter is. Does he talk to people? Does he get interesting feedback or discover anything new? It just seems like a total shitpit. Twitter has to go.
RJ interacts and chats with people all the time. If you have a earnest non-troll/attack question he often will answer you.
 
Serious question.

Would it be possible (or even worth) placing a temporary restriction on Russian traffic on social media. I completely understand the implications that this has on the broader populace and what-if scenarios. However it's common knowledge that Russia have dedicated operations in place that are designed to create controversy, amplify arguments and ultimately make the internet a more toxic environment. So it begs the question, should a block be put in place until:

- Systems are smart enough to filter the trash, OR
- Russia cease the troll farm operations.

I would be interested in what everyone thinks about this.
 
Humor in intense situations, especially at the expense of space nazis, who're definitely not inspired by the real nazis, is TOTALLY out of the ordinary for Starwars:
mate, you talk a big talk about TLJ subverting expectations and being anti toxic masculinity. now youre bringing in nazis to defend a literal "yo momma" prank call. youre all over the shop.
 
Fam just take the L for trying to argue that TLJ's revenue dropoff was an abnormality.


First of all you already deserve an L for trying to argue "This film only made 1.3 billion and you guys are ignoring that."
You're a very rude and obnoxious person.

"ur not a vry smrt person" Yes, nice comeback.

You really are not consistent at all. You don't like the methodology of the legit movie aggregate for reasons that aren't logical compared to other SW drop offs.
Okay, let's level with this CinemaScore stuff.

CinemaScore for TFA: A
CinemaScore for TLJ: A

If both ticket and Blu-Ray sales were significantly down for TLJ, of what exact use is CinemaScore?

"Well, sequels dip in financial performance!"

Let's take some Rotten Tomatoes scores that weren't quote/unquote "brigaded".

Dark Knight: 94/94
Dark Knight Rises: 87/90

Jurassic Park: 91/91
The Lost World: 53/51

PotC Black Pearl: 79/86
PotC Dead Man's Chest: 54/72 (sold more than the original)
PotC At World's End: 45/72 (less than both)

Captain America: First Avenger: 79/74
Captain America: The Winter Soldier: 89/92 (sold more)
Captain America: Civil War: 91/89 (sold even more)

Transformers: 57/85
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: 19/57
Transformers: Dark of the Moon: 35/55
Transformers: Age of Extinction: 18/51

So on and so forth. Funny how the scores, sales, and phenomenon of momentum generally line up here?

Now what is the CinemaScore of literally all these movies?

A or A-, with the sole exception of Revenge of the Fallen at a B+.

So tell me again how CinemaScore is relevant here, except to say that the people who go see a movie on opening night are generally the people who are going to like the movie?

Then you want to use a site anyone can use, even bots, to justify it instead. When it was mostly bots anyway. Then you handwave away your logical inconsistency.

I will never understand TLJ haters.
So you believe that no one anywhere legitimately dislikes TLJ?
 
Thats fine if you don't want to have that discussion however it still holds true that people can have an issue with the consistency of how the reality of this fictional world operates because this movie doesn't exist within a vaccum. Most people aren't mad because it didn't adhere to actual real world physics (although in many instances it appears that it does so outside of the force stuff). If you don't want to have a discussion on that fine but don't act as if adhereing to real world physics is why its still to be mad at this stuff when thats miissing the point entirely.
You misunderstand. It's not that I don't want to have this discussion because it doesn't adhere to real world physics. I don't want to have this discussion because, in this particular fiction, it's stupid. There has NEVER been any rhyme or reason to Star War's space physics and it's not intelligent criticism to go, now of all times, "hey, this doesn't make sense". To me, the space physics, across all movies, of SW are consistent only in their need to work as the plot needs them to.

Admiring worldbuilding is a fine thing. I'm pretty blown away, for example, by really minute details of Tolkien's world or how the world of One Piece (despite not really liking the story as a whole). But there is little point in criticizing SW for failing at something it's not even trying at.

Um excuse me but you were the one that moved the conversation towards real world physics, not myself. I argued that it could be inferred that the dreadnaught could have that capacity because of the dialogue and the character's actions towards it. Hell even before Leia called the ships back she still deployed them for the explicit attempt to destroy the dreadnaught. If it wasn't anymore special than the other ships why was it the entire focus of the attack? And even if I grant you that it didn't have the range (again lol), why not just hyper jump slightly ahead of the resistance and pinch them? The dreadnaught needed to be destroyed, unless the premediated plan to deploy the resistance ships to attack it was completely arbitrary and then we need to speculate whether general Leia is going senile, which I would argue certainly isn't the case.
I didn't move it to real world physics, I just used real world physics to point how nonsensical all of SW's physics are, which means we don't actually know anything about how it works and due to that you can't really make any assumptions about how it works, which that connects to the fact that you don't actually know why dreadnought is a fleet destroyer or why ships couldn't make a small hyper jump.

Here's what know for sure, from the character's dialogue: The Dreadnought is special in some way. But we have no idea why. So you can't assume why it's inconsistent. As for why it didn't do small hyperjumps, also, we don't know why. Maybe it's impossible or maybe unpreferable for whatever reason. But that doesn't make it a contradiction, just a gap of information, which is not really necessary to fill for a storytelling purpose.

But you're using that gap of information as to assume a contradiction, which circles back to our discussion of Poe: you don't have actual evidence to demonstrate Poe being right, just assumptions of how you think SW space physics should work, so the foundation argument that Holdo is wrong to be on his ass falls apart.
 
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mate, you talk a big talk about TLJ subverting expectations and being anti toxic masculinity. now youre bringing in nazis to defend a literal "yo momma" prank call. youre all over the shop.
I'm not all over the shop. I've been consistent, being slighted by a space nazi receiving a prank call in a family movie is quite hilarious.
 
You're a very rude and obnoxious person.

"ur not a vry smrt person" Yes, nice comeback.



Okay, let's level with this CinemaScore stuff.

CinemaScore for TFA: A
CinemaScore for TLJ: A

If both ticket and Blu-Ray sales were significantly down for TLJ, of what exact use is CinemaScore?

"Well, sequels dip in financial performance!"

Let's take some Rotten Tomatoes scores that weren't quote/unquote "brigaded".

Dark Knight: 94/94
Dark Knight Rises: 87/90

Jurassic Park: 91/91
The Lost World: 53/51

PotC Black Pearl: 79/86
PotC Dead Man's Chest: 54/72 (sold more than the original)
PotC At World's End: 45/72 (less than both)

Captain America: First Avenger: 79/74
Captain America: The Winter Soldier: 89/92 (sold more)
Captain America: Civil War: 91/89 (sold even more)

Transformers: 57/85
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: 19/57
Transformers: Dark of the Moon: 35/55
Transformers: Age of Extinction: 18/51

So on and so forth. Funny how the scores, sales, and phenomenon of momentum generally line up here?

Now what is the CinemaScore of literally all these movies?

A or A-, with the sole exception of Revenge of the Fallen at a B+.

So tell me again how CinemaScore is relevant here, except to say that the people who go see a movie on opening night are generally the people who are going to like the movie?



So you believe that no one anywhere legitimately dislikes TLJ?
Your inconsistent and contradictory behavior is pointed out so your response is to dig your heels in and go on the attack? Okay then.
 
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There won't be a single nerd debate that isn't hijacked by dark money. Gamergate was too successful for what it was not to keep pushing this angle. There are so many people in a desperate search for an identity in nerd spaces. The low effort it takes to weaponize them is about as lucrative as it gets if you benefit from shifting the discourse in a reactionary direction.

The actual good faith criticisms of TLJ aren't at all what the broad conversation is at this point. It's been thoroughly co-opted to be entirely about politics, yet another launching point to inject regressive ideas into a mass of aimless, empty minds.
 
You're a very rude and obnoxious person.

You'll have to forgive me for not taking the following talking points seriously:
-a film ONLY made 1.3 billion dollars compared to the 2 billion that it's predecessor, aka return of a 40 year old film franchise, made,
-ONLY had the top bluray sales of the year
-Rotten tomato user scores are the actual metric for a film's general audience reception, nothing else exists, pls ignore cinemascore
 
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I am being very calm and non-dismissive in my responses, apparently I can't expect the same in return.
You're arguing in intellectually dishonest ways and dismissing actual fact over a review site that has numerous flaws and is easily abused by bots and people with agendas that haven't seen it. You also dismiss blatant fact about how sequels are viewed and do in the bo. I have a hard time taking you seriously when your flaws are pointed out that you just dig in.
 
You're arguing in intellectually dishonest ways and dismissing actual fact over a review site that has numerous flaws and is easily abused by bots and people with agendas that haven't seen it. You also dismiss blatant fact about how sequels are viewed and do in the bo. I have a hard time taking you seriously when your flaws are pointed out that you just dig in.
So you disagree with the arguments that I'm positing in a respectful and level-headed way, and that's clearance to be abrasive and condescending?

Era needs to get a grip.
 
So you disagree with the arguments that I'm positing in a respectful and level-headed way, and that's clearance to be abrasive and condescending?

Era needs to get a grip.
Not at what I argued nor am I behaving that way. You're the one being abrasive when we point out that you aren't making logically consistent arguments. You can not like TLJ all you want but your arguments have huge consistency flaws. Nor do they coincide worg reality. You keep dodging my point like Kavanaugh dodging the FBI question
 
fine. i guess this is a prime example of SW discourse.

"i dont like the yo momma prank call"
"making jokes at the expense of nazis is hilarious"
"its just a shit joke"
"they are literally nazis!"

this shit is exhausting. i leave it to the bots i guess.
If you want to argue the quality of the joke, then you're free to do so. To say that the person who enjoys the joke is "bringing in" nazi's in their justification as to why they like the joke (which shouldn't need to be defended to begin with because humor is subjective) is trying to falsely attribute them with changing the the circumstances of the joke.

Debate the point you want to debate. Don't deflect and then get mad when your deflection is pointed out as inaccurate.
 
fine. i guess this is a prime example of SW discourse.

"i dont like the yo momma prank call"
"making jokes at the expense of nazis is hilarious"
"its just a shit joke"
"they are literally nazis!"

this shit is exhausting. i leave it to the bots i guess.
You can not like the joke but don't treat it as a knock against the film's quality. Reminder, it comes from the same person who said this after seeing a man get beheaded:


So much of TLJ criticism is boiled down to literally just describing events that happen, (usually falsely while ignoring context), instead of actually making an argument.
 
Not at what I argued nor am I behaving that way. You're the one being abrasive when we point out that you aren't making logically consistent arguments. You can not like TLJ all you want but your arguments have huge consistency flaws. Nor do they coincide worg reality. You keep dodging my point like Kavanaugh dodging the FBI question
I'm being abrasive in response to disrespectful responses, so don't go full-hypocrite on me.

I also just addressed the sequel dip and CinemaScore arguments.
 

You'll have to forgive me for not taking the following talking points seriously:
-a film ONLY made 1.3 billion dollars compared to the 2 billion that it's predecessor, aka return of a 40 year old film franchise, made,
-ONLY had the top bluray sales of the year
-Rotten tomato user scores are the actual metric for a film's general audience reception, nothing else exists, pls ignore cinemascore
To be honest, I don't understand why people are so invested in how financially successful TLJ is. It's not like anyone believes popularity or financial success is indicative of quality, right? Transformers is popular and successful. Twilight was popular and successful. You can speculate on why other people might like it, but seriously, who fucking cares if the general population likes or dislikes something.

If I hated TLJ, I wouldn't debate this at all. Like...I don't debate about BvS's financial success, but I also don't care. I hate that movie. that's whats important to me. I don't need the validation of the general public to have that opinion. Why would I if I hated TLJ? Why do others?
 
So what we are classifying Shakespeare’s work since that also had a “Yo momma” joke in it?

On topic: Not surprising. Looking forward to reading the paper on my free time
 
To be honest, I don't understand why people are so invested in how financially successful TLJ is. It's not like anyone believes popularity or financial success is indicative of quality, right? Transformers is popular and successful. Twilight was popular and successful. You can speculate on why other people might like it, but seriously, who fucking cares if the general population likes or dislikes something.

If I hated TLJ, I wouldn't debate this at all. Like...I don't debate about BvS's financial success, but I also don't care. I hate that movie. that's whats important to me. I don't need the validation of the general public to have that opinion. Why would I if I hated TLJ? Why do others?
Must...resist...coming back into thread so I can post that I love this post.

God dammit!
 
To be honest, I don't understand why people are so invested in how financially successful TLJ is. It's not like anyone believes popularity or financial success is indicative of quality, right? Transformers is popular and successful. Twilight was popular and successful. You can speculate on why other people might like it, but seriously, who fucking cares if the general population likes or dislikes something.

If I hated TLJ, I wouldn't debate this at all. Like...I don't debate about BvS's financial success, but I also don't care. I hate that movie. that's whats important to me. I don't need the validation of the general public to have that opinion. Why would I if I hated TLJ? Why do others?
It comes down to nerds being so desperate that they need personal validation for not liking a movie. TLJ is a special case because no matter what they say, TLJ was a massive success baed on every metric possible and continues to be as more and more good news comes out for the people who helped it come to life, from Kathleen Kennedy's contract getting extended for years to Rian Johnson having a trilogy and winning awards. Remember how a year ago people tried to genuinely argue that Mark Hamill genuinely hated the movie? Or how months ago they were desperate enough to believe completely unfounded rumors from the dailyexpress of all things that Kathleen Kennedy was fired. This is exacerbated by a culture of youtubers who've made a commodity out of the unhinged rage of nerds:
 
The whole "people who hate TLJ are alt-right" is such a mind fuck to me. I think it's a sign of the times that the notion even exists.

I straight up thought it was one of the worst movies I've ever seen and I've been a huge Star Wars fan since the original trilogy came out. It felt like I was watching the prequels at many times. Just nothing in it made any sense or had any coherence to it. It was like the three stooges made a Star Wars.

Luke phoning in the final battle was such a 2018 corporate thing to do and I'm still in shock how anticlimactic it was. Here's hoping IX rights the course.
 
I'm being abrasive in response to disrespectful responses, so don't go full-hypocrite on me.

I also just addressed the sequel dip and CinemaScore arguments.
Not at all being a hypocrite.

You haven't really addressed it....they refute your weird obsession with an aggregate site known for use by bots and people who haven't seen it. Not to mention your harping on the bo drop when that's consistent. Like , come the frick on duder.
 
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